I've got a general question about the capabilities of the Kflop.

I've got a small knee mill that I retrofitted to Mach 3 a few years ago. It has a Bob campbell board for controlling all the axis, home switches, VFD, etc. It has a plain vanilla breakout board on LPT2 which controls a couple of relays and takes the inputs from the limit switches.

I'm pretty far along building an ATC for this machine. The ATC is going to need another 5 outputs to control it, and about 7 inputs for feedback from the various actuators. As you can imagine, all this IO is getting a bit tight on two parallel ports. I'm going to have to do things like combine all the limit switches on one input (no big deal) and combine the functions of drawbar release and tool unload on a single output (a slightly bigger deal).

All this has me wondering, what can Kflop do for me? If I ditch all the parallel port hardware and replace it with a Kflop can I do what I want to do without running out of I/O lines? The website doesn't make it entirely clear what functions are available on the Kflop board. The Artsoft website has a simple summary of the capabilities, but I don't know if it is comprehensive.

This is my complete wish list, my current solution doesn't give me all of these things:

5-axis (X,Y,Z, A (Rotary Table), Z2 (knee, tool offsets are applied here))
1 Analog out 0-5v or 0-10v is fine (for VFD)
~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical buttons)

thanks,
c

Hi Corey,

Why 2 outputs for spindle?
~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)

+ and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical buttons)

Cheers Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "corey94945" <vandal968@...> wrote:
>
> I've got a general question about the capabilities of the Kflop.
>
> I've got a small knee mill that I retrofitted to Mach 3 a few years ago. It has a Bob campbell board for controlling all the axis, home switches, VFD, etc. It has a plain vanilla breakout board on LPT2 which controls a couple of relays and takes the inputs from the limit switches.
>
> I'm pretty far along building an ATC for this machine. The ATC is going to need another 5 outputs to control it, and about 7 inputs for feedback from the various actuators. As you can imagine, all this IO is getting a bit tight on two parallel ports. I'm going to have to do things like combine all the limit switches on one input (no big deal) and combine the functions of drawbar release and tool unload on a single output (a slightly bigger deal).
>
> All this has me wondering, what can Kflop do for me? If I ditch all the parallel port hardware and replace it with a Kflop can I do what I want to do without running out of I/O lines? The website doesn't make it entirely clear what functions are available on the Kflop board. The Artsoft website has a simple summary of the capabilities, but I don't know if it is comprehensive.
>
> This is my complete wish list, my current solution doesn't give me all of these things:
>
> 5-axis (X,Y,Z, A (Rotary Table), Z2 (knee, tool offsets are applied here))
> 1 Analog out 0-5v or 0-10v is fine (for VFD)
> ~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
> ~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical buttons)
>
> thanks,
> c
>

Bengt,
Two outputs for spindle because it's Off/Enable FWD/Enable REV. I'm not following how all the limits and homes can be handled on two inputs, can you elaborate? I know that I can combine all the limits on one input since it doesn't really matter which one trips. Are you suggesting doing something similar on the home switches as well? My limits are cherry switches, but my home switches are inductive prox.

I'd still like to know the maximum number of digital ins and digital outs on the Kflop board.

cheers,
c

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...> wrote:

Hi Corey,

Why 2 outputs for spindle?
~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)

+ and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical buttons)

Cheers Bengt

Corey, had you had a look at this page:

http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm

---- Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:

> Bengt,
> Two outputs for spindle because it's Off/Enable FWD/Enable REV. I'm not
> following how all the limits and homes can be handled on two inputs, can you
> elaborate? I know that I can combine all the limits on one input since it
> doesn't really matter which one trips. Are you suggesting doing something
> similar on the home switches as well? My limits are cherry switches, but my
> home switches are inductive prox.
>
> I'd still like to know the maximum number of digital ins and digital outs on
> the Kflop board.
>
> cheers,
> c
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Corey,
> >
> > Why 2 outputs for spindle?
> > ~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
> >
> > + and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
> > ~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical
> > buttons)
> >
> > Cheers Bengt
> >

Hi Corey,
Two pins can handle this, all +/- limits to one and all home to one. When you do homeing you do one axis at the time Z first second Y third X and so on, you have to write your own homeing in Mach. There are lots of info on Machsupport on this. There is one issue if two axis hits limits at the same time as Tom explained in earlier thread, but it is probably never going to happend. To be on the safe side you can always use soft-limits in Mach.
Cheers Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
>
> Bengt,
> Two outputs for spindle because it's Off/Enable FWD/Enable REV. I'm not
> following how all the limits and homes can be handled on two inputs, can you
> elaborate? I know that I can combine all the limits on one input since it
> doesn't really matter which one trips. Are you suggesting doing something
> similar on the home switches as well? My limits are cherry switches, but my
> home switches are inductive prox.
>
> I'd still like to know the maximum number of digital ins and digital outs on
> the Kflop board.
>
> cheers,
> c
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Corey,
> >
> > Why 2 outputs for spindle?
> > ~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
> >
> > + and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
> > ~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical
> > buttons)
> >
> > Cheers Bengt
> >
>

Marty,
I've seen that page, but it still leaves me with questions.

If I'm reading this right, it looks like the board has 45 general purpose I/O lines. If I am using 5 axis running steppers (no feedback), that should use 10 lines. So I believe that I would have 35 I/O lines left that could be used for anything under Mach3, I'm just not positive if this is the case. If this is true, Dynomotion should make it OBVIOUS on their web-site since this would be quite a selling point.

I'd like to see something like this on their website:

45 available I/O's
Steppers use 2 per axis, Servos use 4 per axis, all remaining can be used for any purpose:

Examples:
3-axis stepper with 39 I/O's available.
3-axis servo with 33 I/O's available

5-axis stepper with 35 I/O's available
5-axis servo with 25 I/O's available.

Is what I wrote above true or not? I still don't have an answer. Potential customers with unanswered questions are lost sales.

c

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Marty Escarcega <escarcega@...> wrote:
Corey, had you had a look at this page:

http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm

---- Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
> Bengt,
> Two outputs for spindle because it's Off/Enable FWD/Enable REV. I'm not
> following how all the limits and homes can be handled on two inputs, can you
> elaborate? I know that I can combine all the limits on one input since it
> doesn't really matter which one trips. Are you suggesting doing something
> similar on the home switches as well? My limits are cherry switches, but my
> home switches are inductive prox.
>
> I'd still like to know the maximum number of digital ins and digital outs on
> the Kflop board.
>
> cheers,
> c
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Corey,
> >
> > Why 2 outputs for spindle?
> > ~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
> >
> > + and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
> > ~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3 physical
> > buttons)
> >
> > Cheers Bengt
> >

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Hi Corey,

Yes that is basically correct. KFlop by itself actually has 46 Digital I/O lines (labeled IO0 through IO45). All can be used as General Purpose I/O but some pins have dedicated hardware functions. Step/Dir output pins, PWM output pins, and quadrature encoder input pins are dedicated. Home, Limits, Index Pulses, or other I/O are handled through software so they may be connected to any available input. Some inputs are +5V tolerant and some are only +3.3V tolerant. When option boards are attached (Kanalog or SnapAmps), then certain KFlop connectors are consumed but with additional I/O added from the option boards. Steppers and Servos can require variable number of I/O bits depending on the type and options (ie. usually servos do not use Step/Dir outputs). I wish it was simpler.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 499	From: Corey Renner	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Thanks Tom, that helps a lot.

You may want to consider making this more obvious on your website and also on the Artsoft plugins page.

http://www.machsupport.com/plugins.php

I don't think that either location is doing justice to the capabilities of this board.

cheers,
c

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:

Hi Corey,

Yes that is basically correct. KFlop by itself actually has 46 Digital I/O lines (labeled IO0 through IO45). All can be used as General Purpose I/O but some pins have dedicated hardware functions. Step/Dir output pins, PWM output pins, and quadrature encoder input pins are dedicated. Home, Limits, Index Pulses, or other I/O are handled through software so they may be connected to any available input. Some inputs are +5V tolerant and some are only +3.3V tolerant. When option boards are attached (Kanalog or SnapAmps), then certain KFlop connectors are consumed but with additional I/O added from the option boards. Steppers and Servos can require variable number of I/O bits depending on the type and options (ie. usually servos do not use Step/Dir outputs). I wish it was simpler.

I hope this helps.

Regards

TK

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 500	From: Marty Escarcega	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Looks like Tom answered you and confirmed our suspicions about the number of I/O

Damn its hot outside....I got the mill loaded on the trailer and ready to go. It went pretty well. We've taken a few pictures. I'll post them over the weekend.

Did I say its friggin HOT outside?

Marty
---- Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:

> Marty,
> I've seen that page, but it still leaves me with questions.
>
> If I'm reading this right, it looks like the board has 45 general purpose
> I/O lines. If I am using 5 axis running steppers (no feedback), that should
> use 10 lines. So I believe that I would have 35 I/O lines left that could
> be used for anything under Mach3, I'm just not positive if this is the
> case. If this is true, Dynomotion should make it OBVIOUS on their web-site
> since this would be quite a selling point.
>
> I'd like to see something like this on their website:
>
> 45 available I/O's
> Steppers use 2 per axis, Servos use 4 per axis, all remaining can be used
> for any purpose:
>
> Examples:
> 3-axis stepper with 39 I/O's available.
> 3-axis servo with 33 I/O's available
>
> 5-axis stepper with 35 I/O's available
> 5-axis servo with 25 I/O's available.
>
> Is what I wrote above true or not? I still don't have an answer. Potential
> customers with unanswered questions are lost sales.
>
> c
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Marty Escarcega <escarcega@...> wrote:
>
> > Corey, had you had a look at this page:
> >
> > http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
> > > Bengt,
> > > Two outputs for spindle because it's Off/Enable FWD/Enable REV. I'm not
> > > following how all the limits and homes can be handled on two inputs, can
> > you
> > > elaborate? I know that I can combine all the limits on one input since
> > it
> > > doesn't really matter which one trips. Are you suggesting doing
> > something
> > > similar on the home switches as well? My limits are cherry switches, but
> > my
> > > home switches are inductive prox.
> > >
> > > I'd still like to know the maximum number of digital ins and digital outs
> > on
> > > the Kflop board.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > c
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Corey,
> > > >
> > > > Why 2 outputs for spindle?
> > > > ~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
> > > >
> > > > + and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
> > > > ~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3
> > physical
> > > > buttons)
> > > >
> > > > Cheers Bengt
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 501	From: Marty Escarcega	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Meant to send this directly to Corey, but FWIW, we live in the Phoenix Metropolitan area and are part of the same metalworking club. At 4:15pm its 112 degrees.....I'm bringing home a 10x54 CNC Knee mill tomorrow, moving it myself.

Marty
---- Marty Escarcega <escarcega@...> wrote:

> Looks like Tom answered you and confirmed our suspicions about the number of I/O
>
> Damn its hot outside....I got the mill loaded on the trailer and ready to go. It went pretty well. We've taken a few pictures. I'll post them over the weekend.
>
> Did I say its friggin HOT outside?
>
> Marty
> ---- Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
> > Marty,
> > I've seen that page, but it still leaves me with questions.
> >
> > If I'm reading this right, it looks like the board has 45 general purpose
> > I/O lines. If I am using 5 axis running steppers (no feedback), that should
> > use 10 lines. So I believe that I would have 35 I/O lines left that could
> > be used for anything under Mach3, I'm just not positive if this is the
> > case. If this is true, Dynomotion should make it OBVIOUS on their web-site
> > since this would be quite a selling point.
> >
> > I'd like to see something like this on their website:
> >
> > 45 available I/O's
> > Steppers use 2 per axis, Servos use 4 per axis, all remaining can be used
> > for any purpose:
> >
> > Examples:
> > 3-axis stepper with 39 I/O's available.
> > 3-axis servo with 33 I/O's available
> >
> > 5-axis stepper with 35 I/O's available
> > 5-axis servo with 25 I/O's available.
> >
> > Is what I wrote above true or not? I still don't have an answer. Potential
> > customers with unanswered questions are lost sales.
> >
> > c
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Marty Escarcega <escarcega@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Corey, had you had a look at this page:
> > >
> > > http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---- Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
> > > > Bengt,
> > > > Two outputs for spindle because it's Off/Enable FWD/Enable REV. I'm not
> > > > following how all the limits and homes can be handled on two inputs, can
> > > you
> > > > elaborate? I know that I can combine all the limits on one input since
> > > it
> > > > doesn't really matter which one trips. Are you suggesting doing
> > > something
> > > > similar on the home switches as well? My limits are cherry switches, but
> > > my
> > > > home switches are inductive prox.
> > > >
> > > > I'd still like to know the maximum number of digital ins and digital outs
> > > on
> > > > the Kflop board.
> > > >
> > > > cheers,
> > > > c
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Corey,
> > > > >
> > > > > Why 2 outputs for spindle?
> > > > > ~9 outputs (2 spindle, 1 coolant, 6 air solenoids, etc.)
> > > > >
> > > > > + and - limits and home needs max 3 inputs do it with 2 inputs
> > > > > ~19 inputs (6 limit switches, 3 home switches, 7 ATC feedback, 3
> > > physical
> > > > > buttons)
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers Bengt
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 487	From: corey94945	Date: 7/1/2010
Subject: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 489	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 490	From: Corey Renner	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 491	From: Marty Escarcega	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 492	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 494	From: Corey Renner	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 496	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: General question about capabilities of Kflop